The split at OD has cleared out a LOT of the trash from both posters and commentators, much better now.
Hunter tried having a big tent and inviting in lots of VNN scum and other defectives, it just won't work. Better he does his own thing and runs a tight ship.
What are you smoking? The quality of the comments at OD has declined precipitously. Trolls and idiots have driven away many of the good commentators.
That said, where is the evidence that Fade/Hunter has abandoned racialism? What we call "white nationalism" has not yielded any results in decades so it is understandable he is distancing himself from that particular label.
And what have neoconservatism and faileoconservatism achieved over the last few decades? What results did the so-called Republican Revolution of 1994 yield? The Tea Party is the Republican Revolution all over again, and the Tea Party will accomplish as much as the Republican Revolution did.
Hunter Wallace and other white nationalists with short memories who are excited about the Tea Party need to study history.
White nationalists who believe the Tea Party followers will become increasingly radicalized and focused are going to be sorely disappointed. As has happened over and over and over the last few decades, the Tea Party followers will make a lot of noise and vent their anger for a while. They will vote against Democrats in the next couple of elections. Then they will be satisfied that they "made a difference" and "taught Washington a lesson" and the Tea Party will fizzle out. It's the same thing that has happened time after time in the last few decades, from the election of Nixon, to the election of Reagan, to the Republican Revolution, to the election of George W. Bush. White nationalists who think "it's going to be different this time" are deluding themselves.
White nationalists have got to be the most gullible people in the world. They perennially pin their hopes and latch on to aracial movements that utterly despise them, like the Ron Paul campaign and the Tea Party movement.
Wallace has been making many false dichotomies lately. One of the most egregious is that you are either a do-nothing anonymous VNNer who just posts racial slurs on the Internet or you're a dyed-in-the-wool Tea Party supporter and man o' action. Wallace fetishizes "action" for the sake of action. "Action" is not an end in itself. What we need is smart, effective action that advances the survival of our race, not Tea Party-style hot air that accomplishes nothing.
This goes out to Whiskey, Freiboden, OneSTDV, and other negrophiles: A typical example of the type of "hotties" who are "irresistibly attracted" to negroes
Hoste has said before that he is pro-White (which, I know, isn't the same thing as saying one is WN).
He may genuinely believe that he is, but his stated views on immigration restrictionism and his support of nutty libertarian economics puts him in a position of being nominally pro-White, at best. He seems to think that high-IQ non-white immigration is good for whites, and that Americans should lower their standard of living to compete with Chinese slave labor if they don't want to lose their jobs.
Hunter tried having a big tent and inviting in lots of VNN scum and other defectives, it just won't work. - Anon 10:05
Whatever dude, I've been reading OD since last summer and there have never been more than a handful of VNN posters or "defectives" at any one time. The quality of the commentary last fall or even earlier this year was far superior to what it is now. The only highlight recently was Maguire's return (as "Ex Pro White Activist") on the "industrial productivity" thread.
What are you smoking? The quality of the comments at OD has declined precipitously. Trolls and idiots have driven away many of the good commentators. - Anon 6:57
That poster you responded to is probably Friedrich Braun or one of the other rabid philosemites, they love to fling shite. OD's comments have seriously declined in quality of late. Allowing trolls like Randy Garver (and previously Yosemite, FB, etc) has been a net negative. Why does every pro-white site have a dismal editorial policy? Most of them simply lack the ability to discern friend from foe and consequently ban good posters while allowing trolls to stay around.
What we need is smart, effective action that advances the survival of our race, not Tea Party-style hot air that accomplishes nothing. - Anon 11:09
Preaching to the choir. The point I made was in response to the people who seem to think Hunter has turned anti-racist, as was implied on that MR thread. I don't see that he has. Truth be told, I'm not really a fan of his new direction myself and I agree that the Tea Party will very likely not only become irrelevant but will in fact be diverted into another bad-for-whites movement as all previous American "conservative" movements have been.
The quality of the comments at OD has declined precipitously. Trolls and idiots have driven away many of the good commentators.
It's been a net gain.
A lot of the behavior of these people is really nigger behavior. They're like internet gangs fighting over ideological turf, it's bizarre and disgusting.
Most of the trolls and idiots went back to VNN and MR. Just look at that MR thread that was linked to attacking Hunter. Why would those people be proud of that, it's disgraceful.
Someone isn't a troll, philo-Semite or Jew just because they disagree with you.
Hunter's point with the Tea Party is they are actually organizing in person and making a stand at least, whereas WN is mostly in internet fantasy land.
HW is clearly the better man in that exchange. Johnson comes off as a loon, along with many others at MR.
I've read through the comments of that particular log entry at MR and do not agree. I believe the truth of the matter in what has been/is happening at OD is well articulated by NotusWind:
In his more lucid moments HW can be a very talented writer and thinker but he does have a delicate mental psyche and isn’t capable of shouldering the level of responsibility that he was heaping on himself by radically expanding OD and taking on TOQ. The rough and tumble of human relations that was sure to follow was just too much; some personality types can lead and bring order out of the messy chaos of human squabbling but not him. For goodness sake, the man had a mental breakdown just from watching the news that accompanied the recent financial crash, Scrooby and I shared the bizarre experience of watching a talented mind slowly become incomprehensible.
Here’s a lesson that I think we can all takeaway from this: In order to maximize our effectiveness in the outside world we must first know ourselves, not just our talents but also our limits.
I feel this is exactly what has happened. HW is not evil or subversive, just fragile. I believe his talents are best suited for writing only. Once he begins putting too much on his plate is when the wheels fall off. I was witness to his previous meltdown.
This argument might hold water if HW were crowding out others able and willing to do a better job. He's not and he wasn't.
The clarity, articulation, depth, and uncanny insight of his writing is what attracts others. He is also very bright and knows a tremendous amount about history. He is very talented in this regard. With that said, one cannot ignore the fact he is unstable, and I do not mean that disparagingly. He needs to know and stay within his limits and he will do quite well, for himself and for us.
My point: "unstable" or not, I see no one else stepping up to do what HW was trying (and succeeding) to do. "Fragile" or not, no one can seriously argue he has done more harm than good to the cause he seeks to advance.
Agreed and I am not one of those arguing he has done more harm than good. With each passing "meltdown", his effectiveness may diminish, though that certainly was not the case with OD. We'll see.
My point: "unstable" or not, I see no one else stepping up to do what HW was trying (and succeeding) to do.
Which was... what, exactly? Gather a lot of (mostly young) WN writers in once place? Admittedly, OD was good for that, but someone with more loyalty to WN can easily do the same thing. OD has always had a major problem with Hunter's bizarre personality and ideas (subtle at times, not so subtle at others).
The clarity, articulation, depth, and uncanny insight of his writing is what attracts others.
Good grief. Clarity? Insight? He changes his worldview every six months. Now he's promoting tea party conservatism as the answer. Is that "uncanny insight"?
Good grief. Clarity? Insight? He changes his worldview every six months. Now he's promoting tea party conservatism as the answer. Is that "uncanny insight"?
He's young and a worldview, be it his or anyone's, is not static. His expression of his ideas comes across quite clearly and insightful. He lays it out there for all to judge and many times he is pretty damn good. Why do you think people flocked to his sight, because he was stupid and dense? Nope. Because he was so smart and a know it all? Nope. Lots of those types around that have barely any readership.
Whether you agree with him is irrelevant to his abilities. Whether he is correct in what he writes is just as irrelevant. He is very talented. Just fragile.
To be more precise, what instability and breakdown are you referring to since he started OD? If anything he has been exceptionally rational and forgiving of everyone around him only in the end to be stabbed in the back. It's a shame.
He's young and a worldview, be it his or anyone's, is not static.
He's 30 years old, and we're not talking about a few changes over time.
He regularly dramatically changes his worldview every few months. One day he's philosemitic. A couple of years later he's antisemitic. One day's he a New Atheist and extremely negative toward Christianity. A while later he's an "unhappy atheist" who is opposed to any criticism of Christianity. One day he's chummy with Alex Linder. A few months later he's bitterly denouncing Linder. One day he's a communitarian and Kunstler collapse believer. One day he says "conservatism is for retards" and white nationalism is the only answer. A few months later he's promoting Tea Party conservatism and saying white nationalism is useless.
Everybody's worldview and opinions change over time, but Fade's changes are extreme.
You may not be aware of all his drastic reversals if you've only followed him at OD the past year. Many people get angry when Fade's Phora and Odessa Syndicate days are brought up and think it's ancient history that doesn't matter, but the fact is that these dramatic ideological shifts are a recurring pattern for Fade.
There were quite a few who left VNN, and rightly so. It's a natural desire to escape the sewer and distance yourself from it.
Anyone you could say the same thing about Linder, Johnson, and many others involved in the attack on Hunter. They are the instigators in the change, so blame the attackers not the victim for defending himself.
There were quite a few who left VNN, and rightly so. It's a natural desire to escape the sewer and distance yourself from it.
I asked you who the "trolls and idiots" that "went back to VNN and MR" were.
Anyone you could say the same thing about Linder, Johnson, and many others involved in the attack on Hunter. They are the instigators in the change, so blame the attackers not the victim for defending himself.
The repeated violent shifts in ideology are a pattern with Fade. A few months ago Fade said "conservatism is for retards". Now he decides to become a Sarah Palin and Tea Party supporter because Alex Linder and Greg Johnson attacked him? How is doing a drastic about-face like that "defending himself"?
I asked you who the "trolls and idiots" that "went back to VNN and MR" were.
That's a rhetorical question. That's like asking who are the stupid niggers at a rap concert.
Why do some people act like Hunter is some kind of anti and has renounced White nationalism. He is offering rational criticisms of White nationalism regarding real world activism and influencing change. There are plenty of pro-White activists and sympathizers who go about their daily lives in normal conservative organizations and social groups.
Hunter says to judge people by their actions, not words. On this basis he is now a fervent Tea Party supporter.
Hunter ought to practice what he preaches. What have faileoconservatism and neoconservatism accomplished over the last few decades? What did the so-called Republican Revolution of 1994 achieve? Hunter is falling victim to the same mistake he accuses white nationalists of making. Republicans/conservatives seduce people with nice rhetoric and coded appeals, and people like Hunter waste their time and effort supporting aracial conservative movements that do nothing. What fruit has Hunter's strategy yielded in the past 50 years?
A few months ago, Hunter himself was making some of the strongest criticisms of what he now advocates!
This is what Hunter thought about conservatism and the Tea Party:
"No serious threat to the status quo will ever arise within the "synagogue of political correctness." The gelded court conservatives who fret endlessly at the prospect of being expelled from the congregation are only fooling themselves that they can accomplish anything on the terms of the enemy. They are a controlled opposition. In participating in this anti-White system, they are giving it legitimacy and postponing the day when a serious revolutionary movement can rise to challenge the status quo."
"In the short term, expect the Tea Partiers to do what they always do: in 2010, prostitute their votes to the system candidate with an (R) beside his name, undoubtedly at the urging of the loudmouths on conservative talk radio. Barring some major transformative event, this sort of kabuki theatre will go on until national conservative politics finally becomes untenable due to changing racial demographics."
"I hope conservatism will continue its losing streak. I don't want to see it win again."
"The conservatives had fifty years to reverse our racial degeneration. We have nothing to show for it. At this late date, I am convinced it is "White Nationalism or bust" for America's White majority."
"[Guy White] is a daily reminder of the patriotarded who stalk the pro-White blogosphere and their drool cup rightwing neoconservatism. To borrow a phrase from Tom Fleming, these poltroons must be prevented from infecting our discourse."
227 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 227 of 227The split at OD has cleared out a LOT of the trash from both posters and commentators, much better now.
Hunter tried having a big tent and inviting in lots of VNN scum and other defectives, it just won't work. Better he does his own thing and runs a tight ship.
What are you smoking? The quality of the comments at OD has declined precipitously. Trolls and idiots have driven away many of the good commentators.
That said, where is the evidence that Fade/Hunter has abandoned racialism? What we call "white nationalism" has not yielded any results in decades so it is understandable he is distancing himself from that particular label.
And what have neoconservatism and faileoconservatism achieved over the last few decades? What results did the so-called Republican Revolution of 1994 yield? The Tea Party is the Republican Revolution all over again, and the Tea Party will accomplish as much as the Republican Revolution did.
Hunter Wallace and other white nationalists with short memories who are excited about the Tea Party need to study history.
White nationalists who believe the Tea Party followers will become increasingly radicalized and focused are going to be sorely disappointed. As has happened over and over and over the last few decades, the Tea Party followers will make a lot of noise and vent their anger for a while. They will vote against Democrats in the next couple of elections. Then they will be satisfied that they "made a difference" and "taught Washington a lesson" and the Tea Party will fizzle out. It's the same thing that has happened time after time in the last few decades, from the election of Nixon, to the election of Reagan, to the Republican Revolution, to the election of George W. Bush. White nationalists who think "it's going to be different this time" are deluding themselves.
White nationalists have got to be the most gullible people in the world. They perennially pin their hopes and latch on to aracial movements that utterly despise them, like the Ron Paul campaign and the Tea Party movement.
Wallace has been making many false dichotomies lately. One of the most egregious is that you are either a do-nothing anonymous VNNer who just posts racial slurs on the Internet or you're a dyed-in-the-wool Tea Party supporter and man o' action. Wallace fetishizes "action" for the sake of action. "Action" is not an end in itself. What we need is smart, effective action that advances the survival of our race, not Tea Party-style hot air that accomplishes nothing.
This goes out to Whiskey, Freiboden, OneSTDV, and other negrophiles: A typical example of the type of "hotties" who are "irresistibly attracted" to negroes
Hoste has said before that he is pro-White (which, I know, isn't the same thing as saying one is WN).
He may genuinely believe that he is, but his stated views on immigration restrictionism and his support of nutty libertarian economics puts him in a position of being nominally pro-White, at best. He seems to think that high-IQ non-white immigration is good for whites, and that Americans should lower their standard of living to compete with Chinese slave labor if they don't want to lose their jobs.
Hunter tried having a big tent and inviting in lots of VNN scum and other defectives, it just won't work. - Anon 10:05
Whatever dude, I've been reading OD since last summer and there have never been more than a handful of VNN posters or "defectives" at any one time. The quality of the commentary last fall or even earlier this year was far superior to what it is now. The only highlight recently was Maguire's return (as "Ex Pro White Activist") on the "industrial productivity" thread.
What are you smoking? The quality of the comments at OD has declined precipitously. Trolls and idiots have driven away many of the good commentators. - Anon 6:57
That poster you responded to is probably Friedrich Braun or one of the other rabid philosemites, they love to fling shite. OD's comments have seriously declined in quality of late. Allowing trolls like Randy Garver (and previously Yosemite, FB, etc) has been a net negative. Why does every pro-white site have a dismal editorial policy? Most of them simply lack the ability to discern friend from foe and consequently ban good posters while allowing trolls to stay around.
What we need is smart, effective action that advances the survival of our race, not Tea Party-style hot air that accomplishes nothing. - Anon 11:09
Preaching to the choir. The point I made was in response to the people who seem to think Hunter has turned anti-racist, as was implied on that MR thread. I don't see that he has. Truth be told, I'm not really a fan of his new direction myself and I agree that the Tea Party will very likely not only become irrelevant but will in fact be diverted into another bad-for-whites movement as all previous American "conservative" movements have been.
The quality of the comments at OD has declined precipitously. Trolls and idiots have driven away many of the good commentators.
It's been a net gain.
A lot of the behavior of these people is really nigger behavior. They're like internet gangs fighting over ideological turf, it's bizarre and disgusting.
Most of the trolls and idiots went back to VNN and MR. Just look at that MR thread that was linked to attacking Hunter. Why would those people be proud of that, it's disgraceful.
Someone isn't a troll, philo-Semite or Jew just because they disagree with you.
Hunter's point with the Tea Party is they are actually organizing in person and making a stand at least, whereas WN is mostly in internet fantasy land.
Regarding HW and OD:
HW is clearly the better man in that exchange. Johnson comes off as a loon, along with many others at MR.
I've read through the comments of that particular log entry at MR and do not agree. I believe the truth of the matter in what has been/is happening at OD is well articulated by NotusWind:
In his more lucid moments HW can be a very talented writer and thinker but he does have a delicate mental psyche and isn’t capable of shouldering the level of responsibility that he was heaping on himself by radically expanding OD and taking on TOQ. The rough and tumble of human relations that was sure to follow was just too much; some personality types can lead and bring order out of the messy chaos of human squabbling but not him. For goodness sake, the man had a mental breakdown just from watching the news that accompanied the recent financial crash, Scrooby and I shared the bizarre experience of watching a talented mind slowly become incomprehensible.
Here’s a lesson that I think we can all takeaway from this: In order to maximize our effectiveness in the outside world we must first know ourselves, not just our talents but also our limits.
I feel this is exactly what has happened. HW is not evil or subversive, just fragile. I believe his talents are best suited for writing only. Once he begins putting too much on his plate is when the wheels fall off. I was witness to his previous meltdown.
"I feel this is exactly what has happened. HW is not evil or subversive, just fragile. I believe his talents are best suited for writing only."
This argument might hold water if HW were crowding out others able and willing to do a better job. He's not and he wasn't.
This argument might hold water if HW were crowding out others able and willing to do a better job. He's not and he wasn't.
The clarity, articulation, depth, and uncanny insight of his writing is what attracts others. He is also very bright and knows a tremendous amount about history. He is very talented in this regard. With that said, one cannot ignore the fact he is unstable, and I do not mean that disparagingly. He needs to know and stay within his limits and he will do quite well, for himself and for us.
My point: "unstable" or not, I see no one else stepping up to do what HW was trying (and succeeding) to do. "Fragile" or not, no one can seriously argue he has done more harm than good to the cause he seeks to advance.
Agreed and I am not one of those arguing he has done more harm than good. With each passing "meltdown", his effectiveness may diminish, though that certainly was not the case with OD. We'll see.
My point: "unstable" or not, I see no one else stepping up to do what HW was trying (and succeeding) to do.
Which was... what, exactly? Gather a lot of (mostly young) WN writers in once place? Admittedly, OD was good for that, but someone with more loyalty to WN can easily do the same thing. OD has always had a major problem with Hunter's bizarre personality and ideas (subtle at times, not so subtle at others).
The clarity, articulation, depth, and uncanny insight of his writing is what attracts others.
Good grief. Clarity? Insight? He changes his worldview every six months. Now he's promoting tea party conservatism as the answer. Is that "uncanny insight"?
Other than his admitted breakdown a long time ago, what instability and breakdown are you referring to?
I see a lot of insults and judgments passed on him with no substantiation.
Many of the people involved in these arguments are mentally unstable and dishonest so their perceptions are distorted and invalid.
Good grief. Clarity? Insight? He changes his worldview every six months. Now he's promoting tea party conservatism as the answer. Is that "uncanny insight"?
He's young and a worldview, be it his or anyone's, is not static. His expression of his ideas comes across quite clearly and insightful. He lays it out there for all to judge and many times he is pretty damn good. Why do you think people flocked to his sight, because he was stupid and dense? Nope. Because he was so smart and a know it all? Nope. Lots of those types around that have barely any readership.
Whether you agree with him is irrelevant to his abilities. Whether he is correct in what he writes is just as irrelevant. He is very talented. Just fragile.
Other than his admitted breakdown a long time ago, what instability and breakdown are you referring to?
His association with someone that phished a site he was involved with.
His constant changing of internet ids.
His multiple start up and closure of blogs.
To name a few off the top of my head. All this could be nothing or it could be signs that indicate fragility when things get too much.
To be more precise, what instability and breakdown are you referring to since he started OD? If anything he has been exceptionally rational and forgiving of everyone around him only in the end to be stabbed in the back. It's a shame.
He's young and a worldview, be it his or anyone's, is not static.
He's 30 years old, and we're not talking about a few changes over time.
He regularly dramatically changes his worldview every few months. One day he's philosemitic. A couple of years later he's antisemitic. One day's he a New Atheist and extremely negative toward Christianity. A while later he's an "unhappy atheist" who is opposed to any criticism of Christianity. One day he's chummy with Alex Linder. A few months later he's bitterly denouncing Linder. One day he's a communitarian and Kunstler collapse believer. One day he says "conservatism is for retards" and white nationalism is the only answer. A few months later he's promoting Tea Party conservatism and saying white nationalism is useless.
Everybody's worldview and opinions change over time, but Fade's changes are extreme.
You may not be aware of all his drastic reversals if you've only followed him at OD the past year. Many people get angry when Fade's Phora and Odessa Syndicate days are brought up and think it's ancient history that doesn't matter, but the fact is that these dramatic ideological shifts are a recurring pattern for Fade.
Most of the trolls and idiots went back to VNN and MR.
Who specifically are the trolls and idiots who decamped from OD to VNN and MR?
There were quite a few who left VNN, and rightly so. It's a natural desire to escape the sewer and distance yourself from it.
Anyone you could say the same thing about Linder, Johnson, and many others involved in the attack on Hunter. They are the instigators in the change, so blame the attackers not the victim for defending himself.
*Anyway
There were quite a few who left VNN, and rightly so. It's a natural desire to escape the sewer and distance yourself from it.
I asked you who the "trolls and idiots" that "went back to VNN and MR" were.
Anyone you could say the same thing about Linder, Johnson, and many others involved in the attack on Hunter. They are the instigators in the change, so blame the attackers not the victim for defending himself.
The repeated violent shifts in ideology are a pattern with Fade. A few months ago Fade said "conservatism is for retards". Now he decides to become a Sarah Palin and Tea Party supporter because Alex Linder and Greg Johnson attacked him? How is doing a drastic about-face like that "defending himself"?
I asked you who the "trolls and idiots" that "went back to VNN and MR" were.
That's a rhetorical question. That's like asking who are the stupid niggers at a rap concert.
Why do some people act like Hunter is some kind of anti and has renounced White nationalism. He is offering rational criticisms of White nationalism regarding real world activism and influencing change. There are plenty of pro-White activists and sympathizers who go about their daily lives in normal conservative organizations and social groups.
That's a rhetorical question. That's like asking who are the stupid niggers at a rap concert.
No, it's not a rhetorical question. We're still waiting for you to give specific names.
Hunter says to judge people by their actions, not words. On this basis he is now a fervent Tea Party supporter.
Hunter ought to practice what he preaches. What have faileoconservatism and neoconservatism accomplished over the last few decades? What did the so-called Republican Revolution of 1994 achieve? Hunter is falling victim to the same mistake he accuses white nationalists of making. Republicans/conservatives seduce people with nice rhetoric and coded appeals, and people like Hunter waste their time and effort supporting aracial conservative movements that do nothing. What fruit has Hunter's strategy yielded in the past 50 years?
A few months ago, Hunter himself was making some of the strongest criticisms of what he now advocates!
This is what Hunter thought about conservatism and the Tea Party:
"conservatism is for retards"
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/01/28/more-conservatism/
"No serious threat to the status quo will ever arise within the "synagogue of political correctness." The gelded court conservatives who fret endlessly at the prospect of being expelled from the congregation are only fooling themselves that they can accomplish anything on the terms of the enemy. They are a controlled opposition. In participating in this anti-White system, they are giving it legitimacy and postponing the day when a serious revolutionary movement can rise to challenge the status quo."
"In the short term, expect the Tea Partiers to do what they always do: in 2010, prostitute their votes to the system candidate with an (R) beside his name, undoubtedly at the urging of the loudmouths on conservative talk radio. Barring some major transformative event, this sort of kabuki theatre will go on until national conservative politics finally becomes untenable due to changing racial demographics."
"I hope conservatism will continue its losing streak. I don't want to see it win again."
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2009/09/24/uppity-whites/
"The conservatives had fifty years to reverse our racial degeneration. We have nothing to show for it. At this late date, I am convinced it is "White Nationalism or bust" for America's White majority."
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2009/10/24/is-it-time-to-dump-the-conservatives/
"[Guy White] is a daily reminder of the patriotarded who stalk the pro-White blogosphere and their drool cup rightwing neoconservatism. To borrow a phrase from Tom Fleming, these poltroons must be prevented from infecting our discourse."
http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2009/07/27/gw/
When did Hunter renounce his prior beliefs and become a conservative/neocon? You're not fooling anyone.
When did Hunter renounce his prior beliefs and become a conservative/neocon? You're not fooling anyone.
Hunter now believes white nationalism is "completely irrelevant" and conservatism is "the only force holding back the fire". That is a clear renunciation of his prior beliefs, which were "conservatism is for retards" and "The conservatives had fifty years to reverse our racial degeneration. We have nothing to show for it. At this late date, I am convinced it is 'White Nationalism or bust' for America's White majority."
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