"European Americans" are not homogenous

A new paper in PLoS ONE, Genetic Population Structure Analysis in New Hampshire Reveals Eastern European Ancestry, tells us little that wasn't already obvious: genetic distinctions can be drawn among "white" Americans. Unfortunately, only 960 SNPs, mostly on "suspected cancer susceptibility genes", are used for the structure analysis, and most of the clusters reported (for example, Jewish-French Canadian-Candian Indian) don't seem terribly meaningful. "Eastern European ancestry" is mentioned in the title only because "Finnish and Russian/Polish/Lithuanian ancestries were most notably found to be associated with genetic substructure" in this data set. As we've seen repeatedly, with more markers, clear and meaningful genetic substructure is apparent throughout Europe and across various European ancestry groups in the US.


Anonymous said...

Off topic, but did you see this from that Hindoo Newamul Rajiv Khan?

n/a said...

Yes, I've seen it.

Ashkenazi Jews have previously been found to fall between SE Euros and Middle Easterners in PCA plots, so these results are not terribly implausible.

But the pre-Islamic population of the Levant was probably more "European" than current inhabitants. I doubt Syrian Jews really have 30% European admixture, so the "European" percentage of AJs is likely an overestimate. Regardless, AJs have substantial Middle Eastern ancestry, and this abstract does nothing to challenge that. If anything, it ought to shut up people like "The Undiscovered Jew" who have failed to comprehend previous research.

patrick said...

BTW, I think Razib is Bangladeshi actually (an atheist from a Muslim background).

I do think AJs have a fair amount of Middle Eastern ancestry. I don't know what their European ancestry is- one would assume it to be Germanic or Slavic, but it may have been primarily Southern European (e.g. Italian) or Gallo-Roman.

I also think that founder effect/genetic drift played a role in the genetic distinctiveness of the Ashkenazim (a la Iceland, albeit with religion rather than geography as the isolating factor).

For a long time there was almost no gene flow into the community. Gene flow out (due to Christian conversions) was not particularly common, and is hard to detect as Jews were outnumbered by their European host population.

You may be right about the pre-Islamic population of the Levant, as the Druze of Lebanon and Israel (a religious minority who have preserved many pre-Islamic beliefs) seem to be closer to Europeans than other Middle Easterners are.

Eman said...

The White admixture which has occurred more recently in Ashkenazi Jews is mostly of Eastern European Slavic extraction -- this generally within the last 100-125 years or so.

There was actually quite a lot of intermarriage between those newly 'liberated' Commie Jews and various Soviet Slav groups during the entire history of the USSR; that is why so many of the recent 'Russian' or 'Polish' or 'Ukrainian' immigrants to the USA and other White nations since the collapse of the USSR very often have some Jewish ancestry and are only hiding behind their Eastern European Slavic smokescreen.

Anonymous said...

Eh, most of Eastern European Ashkenazi Jewry are descended from the Khazars, 7th century converts to Juda-ism.

patrick said...

Some Ashkenazim in Russia, Hungary etc. (especially Levites) may be descended in part from the Khazars. But no serious scholars today think the Khazars were the primary ancestors of modern Ashkenazi Jews. And I doubt most of the European admixture took place in modern times either.
The study indicates that Americans of NE European ancestry (Finnish, Slavic and Lithuanian) are distinct from Americans of NW European ancestry. I have always wondered how genetically distinct Italian- and Greek-Americans are from Americans of N European descent.

Mark IJsseldijk said...

The White admixture which has occurred more recently in Ashkenazi Jews is mostly of Eastern European Slavic extraction

Actually, the upper class of England has been intermarrying with Jews since the days of Oliver Cromwell and many American Jews have significant Anglo-Norman admixture stemming from this. In fact the trend holds for Jews from any Western European nation, as high-class intermarriage occurred also in Germany, France, Austria, etc. Acting like Western Euros never intermarried with Jews, especailly in the modern era, is very disingenuous.

If you look at Polak's blog, it is clear that (at least for Polish) Jewish admixture is not nearly so high as people like you claim (i.e. ~2% of Polaks have Ashkenazic haplotype).

Gene Thieves said...

The AshkeNazi Khazars are worst kinds of thieves -- for they are gene thieves -- attempting to take the best of our Nordic and Aryan blood and DNA for themselves, in spite of the hypocritical lie that the Jewish community" is "against intermarriage"


Even co-presidente Rahmbo Israelo Emanuelo went out and married himself a "shiksa"... Hmm, isn't halachic law that "Judo-ism" is spread through the mommy's womb?

He even FUBARED that one (unless Rahmmy is de mommy)... ya never know these days :(


Speciation – The NWO end-game?

"Think about it. The ruination of Aryan Man through our mongrelization is the last major step towards Judah’s undisputed reign over this world. But once this is achieved it is only a reprieve from even the Mongrel-man evolving as a threat. But now once a significant gap is reached between the elite and their tools all the stops will be pulled out to maintain and increase this gap. Then as now Judah will extract the best of the Goyim as breeding stock to improve their still degenerate physical and spiritual traits. These Goyim will be destroyed as Aryans since half water and half dirt is just mud. The next tier of Goyim, then as now, will be left in circumstances where reproduction is minimized through feminism, materialism, and faggotry. The bottom tier, then and now, will be the most fecund and most prone to cross with “people of color”. Over time and with the help of all the technology money can buy the Master Race will not only distance itself from its fellow humans it will separate from them permanently – as man is now from livestock.

"Once we are speciated they will breed, cull, and use their stock as suits their purposes: worker drones, medical and scientific test objects, sexual slaves, gladiators; the possibilities are endless. It will be the end of all except the Chosen Ones.

"Seem implausible, impossible, just silly? Maybe. But the evidence is clear that the demonic force ruling us now and poised to control every corner of this planet would LIKE to do this."


patrick said...

Last post is pretty wild; sounds like someone's tinfoil hat is on too tight.

Anonymous said...

"Last post is pretty wild; sounds like someone's tinfoil hat is on too tight."

Tinfoil hat, ha ha ha.

Oh, how so amusing (and original) of you.

Anonymous said...

"But no serious scholars today think the Khazars were the primary ancestors of modern Ashkenazi Jews."

This should read "... no serious (Judaized) scholars today think ..."

Don't think this is an issue? Think again.

"As Sunic points out, in both Europe and America, White attitudes towards Jews have come to be defined in modern times by mendacity and intellectual servility. Faced with a political, academic, and media establishment — the current masters of discourse — configured around a colossal concentration of Jewish power, Whites have not only trained themselves to avoid Jewish wrath by keeping any critical opinions about Jews to themselves, but they have also learnt to curry Jewish favor by flaunting their admiration for Jewish superiority and achievement, by piously demonstrating their conformity to Semitically-correct cognitive structures, and by loudly championing Jewish causes — even when these run directly counter to White interests. Sunic correctly suggests that, in as much as this fuels Jewish hubris, such an unhealthy relationship approaches a limit where it exists one crisis away from detonating into violent anti-Semitism."

"I'm not a Racist, But..."
~Alex Kurtagic


"... White attitudes towards Jews have come to be defined in modern times by mendacity and intellectual servility."

Sounds about right, doesn't it?

patrick said...

Not denying that Ashkenazim have some ancestry from the Khazars or their subjects, it's just probably not their primary ancestral group.
Even Kevin MacDonald(who is hardly "Judaized") doesn't think they are primarily descended from Khazars.
And theories about Jews seeking to breed non-Jews like livestock etc., that sounds like psychotic Hollywood Nazi talk, so I'm just calling it like I see it.