Dumbest argument against McCulloch ever

Award goes to TGGP:

Judging by his last name I am likely more related to Richard McCulloch, but despite that and the Anglophile mild bigotry I share with John Derbyshire (even against my own Catholic Irish ancestors, though it is fading with my old Whigness), I’ll have to side with Torrianni and Rienzi. McCulloch’s main problem with Southern Europeans (Torrianni uses the term IIB, or Italian-Iberian-Balkan) is that they will breed with Northern Europeans and bring about the extinction of the more distinctive types. As someone who agrees with Assman [= rajiv's girlish, semi-Mongoloid side-kick "agnostic", who writes, evidently in total seriousness: "Ground zero for hotness, in my book, is Iran."] that the world-center of hotness is nearer to the Mediterranean than Sweden (though I’m open to women of all races and willing to prove it on camera given a suitably pun-filled title), I find his restrictions unacceptable.


Forgive me for suspecting TGGP, along with his fellow GNXPers, is in little danger of reproducing. Don't worry TGGP--I don't think McCulloch's plan includes confiscation of your jack-off material.

Though I’m a big proponent of secession and panarchy/intentional communities (which seasteading should help if it works out) racial separatists often seem to ignore how marginal their viewpoint is and don’t consider the fact that there will be a lot of white people like me who want to live in mixed areas. I want them to leave, and I’d like the option to leave, but I don’t want to be forced to leave with them.


Better argument than "I loves me some airbrushed nekkid photos of Maria Cuccinota so McCulloch is wrong"; but, in point of fact:

(1) McCulloch is well-aware of the present state of public opinion (can TGGP point to any racialist or racial separatist who is not?):
In classical drama a tragedy is the downfall or destruction of a great person, or a great people, often caused by a fatal flaw in themselves, as they can only really be destroyed by themselves, by self-destruction. So it is with the Northern European or Nordish peoples. A dominant ideology and value system that is profoundly anti-Nordish in the most extreme sense -- being against the very existence of the Nordish race -- has turned the Nordish peoples against their race and its interests, co-opting their support for their own destruction.


McCulloch believes "Nordish peoples' support for -- or lack of active opposition to -- multiracialism is largely based on ignorance". He seeks to raise awareness about the consequences of multiracialism and provide an alternative:

We must give the Nordish peoples something to be for and work for -- a credible, meaningful and preferable alternative to multiracialism that will save their race. The Nordish peoples must know they have choices, and be fully informed about the consequences of those choices. We must offer them the choice of racial preservation through the restoration of the racial environment they require for their continued existence. Exposing the racially terminal consequences of multiracialism explains the problem, describes the disease, but does not provide a solution or a cure. The alternative provides the solution, the cure, that will save the Nordish race. With an alternative there is hope. Without an alternative there is only despair. Hope inspires and encourages action. Despair demoralizes and discourages action. As important as it is for the Nordish peoples to know what they should be against, it is even more important for them to know what they should be for, to have something to be for, to have a goal, to have a dream.


On the essential issues--multiracialism threatens the continued existence of Northern Europeans; long-term racial survival requires geographic separation / territorial integrity--McCulloch is unassailable. The details of his proposed partition of the US matter little, for now.

(2) Continuing residential segregation along racial lines (including by those who disavow racialism) suggests most whites don't want to live in mixed areas. Whites already vote with their feet to live among their own. Nor are "Nordish" Americans scrambling to move to Bensonhurst or Staten Island. In my experience, most do not share your predilection for "Med" women; and, of those who do, I suspect most would still choose a prosperous, well-governed, homogeneously Northern European nation over Brazil.

9 comments:

TGGP said...

I had never heard of Maria Cuccinota before, but thanks for the pointer.

I agree that residential patterns show whites don't like living in heavily minority neighborhoods, but do they also avoid southern europeans, Sailer's men with deep voices and gold chains, orientals and so on or just blacks and hispanics? Also, immigrants from Africa and the Carribbean are relatively pleasant so I don't think whites mind having a light sprinkling of them and other non-underclass blacks around.

TGGP said...

Long as I'm commenting here, figured I'd point out this thread at MR.

n/a said...

but do they also avoid southern europeans

I don't have hard data on this. My strong impression is most Americans avoid large concentrations of S. Euros, and certainly Middle Easterners.

When S. Euros are relatively few in number (as they are in most areas of the U.S.), they simply aren't much of an issue.

You seemed to be claiming McCulloch's plan is doomed because large numbers of "Nordish" Americans strongly desire to live around "Meds", which has not been my observation at all. I doubt McCulloch's plan will succeed (at least on the scale he envisions) during my lifetime, but a strong desire on the part of whites to live in mixed neighborhoods will not be the deal-breaker. Besides, I believe McCulloch makes allowances for "assimilated Meds".

Also, immigrants from Africa and the Carribbean are relatively pleasant so I don't think whites mind having a light sprinkling of them and other non-underclass blacks around.

There is a difference between not minding having a few blacks around and actively desiring to be around blacks to such a degree you could not countenance living in a white nation. While there are those in heavily white states who profess embarrassment at their dearth of "diversity", dig a little and you'll see that practically everyone actively working to change the demographics of those states have more immediate interests in doing so (ethnic interests or profit motive).

TGGP said...

My strong impression is most Americans avoid large concentrations of S. Euros, and certainly Middle Easterners.
It would be news to me. Middle Easterners in America tend to make pretty good neighbors (higher education and lower crime-rates than average). We have an unrepresentative sample though: 75% of Arab-Americans are Christian.

When S. Euros are relatively few in number (as they are in most areas of the U.S.), they simply aren't much of an issue.
Like you said, in most of the U.S they are rather sparse. But are the places they aren't sparse so bad?

I doubt McCulloch's plan will succeed (at least on the scale he envisions) during my lifetime, but a strong desire on the part of whites to live in mixed neighborhoods will not be the deal-breaker.
I'm not saying their clamoring for it, just that most white americans lump all the different european ethnicities (including jewish, though a lot of folks on the internet use that as a contrast to "white") together as just white people and if you advocated separatism they'd think it odd that you split them apart and would be less likely to sign on.

I believe McCulloch makes allowances for "assimilated Meds".
I didn't know there were still people here considered "unassimilated Meds"! At any rate, like Torrianni & Rienzi point out, if his problem is interbreeding wiping out more distinctive Nordish phenotypes, it doesn't matter how similar Mediterraneans are as long as they've got different genes. From what I read McCulloch didn't really concern himself with culture or assimilation.

There is a difference between not minding having a few blacks around and actively desiring to be around blacks to such a degree you could not countenance living in a white nation.
I'm not saying there is a huge desire, just that nothing like the racial consciousness such a plan requires currently exists or is likely to exist any time soon.

n/a said...

Holsinger, J. L. (2004, Aug) The Residential Segregation Of Arab Americans: A Question Of Assimilation Paper presented at the annual meeting of the American Sociological Association, Hilton San Francisco & Renaissance Parc 55 Hotel, San Francisco, CA, Online <.PDF> Retrieved 2006-10-05 from http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p108449_index.html

Publication Type: Conference Paper/Unpublished Manuscript
Review Method: Peer Reviewed
Abstract: Literature on the assimilation of immigrants before World War II has focused on the largest European immigrant populations. More recent attention has been concentrated on Latin American and Asian immigrants who largely comprise the post-WWII arrivals. One group that has been neglected in both cases is that of Arab Americans, a group that has experienced rapid growth during the former and latter parts of the twentieth century. By describing the residential patterns of Arab Americans, I hope to address two research questions. 1) Where do Arab Americans fit into the racial stratification system? 2) How are Arab Americans experiencing spatial assimilation over time? These questions will be answered by analyzing patterns of segregation, i.e. the geographic isolation of a population from the white majority and other minority groups. The study uses aggregate-level data from the 1990 and 2000 U.S. Census Summary Files focusing on four consolidated metropolitan areas: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Detroit. I find that Arab Americans are more segregated than other white ethnic groups who share similar immigration histories, pointing to the effect of recent immigration on the residential distribution of minority groups. Arab Americans are not, however, as segregated as non-white racial or ethnic groups, suggesting that the social and economic status of Arab Americans may override other differences between themselves and the white majority. Despite some degree of isolation, Arab Americans do not appear to reside in disadvantaged locations. Thus, my evidence supports previous findings that residential isolation does not necessarily indicate adverse outcomes.

http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p108449_index.html

the sangha said...

It's interesting that you'd use Staten Island as an example of a place that "Nordish" Americans wish to avoid, since a search on Wikipedia reveals the Northern European segment to be about 30% of the population -- not too far below that of the Italians (presumably mostly Mediterranean). Additionally, the city is characterized as a "haven" for artists. Then again, I believe I've heard negative things about the area from a Jew, but New York seems to have a "love it or hate it" quality from those who've lived there.

I don't think artistically inclined (and presumably higher IQ) Nordics would find Staten Island less appealing than the more "Nordish" Boise, Idaho.

There is also Miami Beach, which is 20% Cuban (mostly Mediterranean but with a sprinkling of Nordic and Upper Paleolithic types among them) and 20% Jewish (also mostly Mediterranean, but with Nordic elements). This is a city that attracts Nordics from all over the U.S. who want to live in a more active, vibrant city than, say, Wichita, Kansas. It also attracts plenty of Nordics from Europe looking for a vacation spot or a place to settle for good times.

This goes to show two people can look at the same data set and come up with very different interpretations.

It would be interesting if you polled young Nordic women on college campuses: "Where would you rather live, Miami Beach, with the beautiful beach and the swarthy Mediterranean men, or Wichita, Kansas, where the Nordish type prevails?"

If Lincoln Road is any indication, with young Nordics either visiting or who've moved down strolling by in constant streams on Friday and Saturday nights, it would seem they'd vote for Miami Beach (along with the men, if you were to poll them too).

But despite what I see visually, maybe there is a "data set" out there from some scientific or sociological study that can be pulled from the murky parts of cyberspace that counters this observation. :P

the sangha said...

Addendum: I underestimated Wichita somewhat. Wichita would have an edge in the sense that the city is more affordable (among other things).

Also, Miami Beach is too chaotic for most Northern Europeans, who have a more reserved demeanor. No doubt though that Miami Beach wins among higher-IQ, artistic Nordics over some of the more "Nordish" but bland parts of the Midwest.

So it also depends on the demographics within the subraces.

Here is a link to a random pic of Miami Beach, in which different subtypes can be seen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:South_Beach_20080315.jpg

n/a said...

It's interesting that you'd use Staten Island as an example of a place that "Nordish" Americans wish to avoid, since a search on Wikipedia reveals the Northern European segment to be about 30% of the population -- not too far below that of the Italians (presumably mostly Mediterranean).

What I wrote: "Nor are "Nordish" Americans scrambling to move to Bensonhurst or Staten Island."

If you believe otherwise, I would love to see your evidence. Wikipedia:

Some main European ancestries of Staten Island, 2000:

* Italian: 37.7% (largest percentage for any U.S. county.)
* Irish : 16.0%
* German : 6.3
* Polish : 4.1%
* Russian : 2.8%
* English : 2.2%


Irish and Germans (and certainly the English) were there before Italians. People claiming Italian ancestry now account for the majority of the European-descended on Staten Island, meaning the Northern European fraction of SI's population can only have declined over the past 150 years.

Did you bother to read the NYT article cited on Wikipedia calling Staten Island "a haven for artists"?

Even as New York’s hip young things invade and colonize neighborhoods near, far and out of state, Staten Island has stayed stubbornly uncool. It remains the forgotten borough; even the success of the hip-hop group Wu-Tang Clan did not remove the island’s seemingly impenetrable veneer of hiplessness.

[. . .]

Within the past few years, a small but growing number of hip young things have begun staring in the face of the island’s lack of coolness and embracing it, to the delight of local boosters.

[. . .]

Creative types who move to Staten Island typically end up on the North Shore, home to the neighborhoods of St. George, Tompkinsville and Stapleton, and the place where much of the island’s small but vibrant underground indie scene thrives.

Compared with other areas of Staten Island, the neighborhoods there are poorer, older and more diverse, home to graceful Victorian houses, thriving Sri Lankan and Mexican populations, much of the island’s public housing and its greatest incidence of crime, though as is true citywide, the crime rate is a fraction of what it was in previous years.

Residents of the North Shore often speak of a dividing line between the island’s northern and southern parts. The South Shore is generally whiter, wealthier and more conservative than the neighborhoods to the north. As Adam Ferretti, a local indie musician, said of the South Shore, “It’s where people put big cement lions on the front lawns.” But the stereotyping runs both ways: many South Shore residents view the North Shore as a dangerous ghetto. And while artists and musicians have gravitated for years to the North Shore, a vibrant local scene never quite emerged.

Egg Creams, Modest Rents

Mr. Mayer was introduced to the North Shore seven summers ago by an artist friend. In visits to the island, he came to love the shopworn diners that still served egg creams, the dive bars filled with die-hard, and sometimes dying, drinkers, and, perhaps most of all, the rents. That November, he and a roommate moved into a two-bedroom apartment in a blue town house in Stapleton. His rent was $450 a month.

Mr. Mayer also took a rebel’s delight in embracing a place many New Yorkers love to loathe.

[. . .]

The pair also began holding backyard parties with bonfires and music that have enticed their friends from Brooklyn and even Manhattan. They figured that friends who saw the island’s beauty and possibilities would move there.

“But no one followed,” Ms. Strombeck said.

“Nobody,” Mr. Mayer added.

[. . .]

Others are skeptical that recent changes will ultimately make a difference. “It is not where it wants to be,” Mr. Mayer said. “And people who have lived here for years doubt whether it’s ever going to get there.”


Whoops.

As for Miami, are you seriously arguing it has experienced a net inflow of Northern European-descended people in response to Cuban and Jewish immigration?

South Dade (the area hardest hit by hurricane Andrew) has been one of the few remaining areas of the county with an "Anglo" population majority. It has also been one of the few areas in Dade with affordable suburban housing. Other areas have experienced fast suburban growth... But those are predominantly Hispanic... For "Anglos" choosing to leave the hurricane-stricken zones, the areas that will prove attractive, in terms of housing prices and ethnicity, are not in Dade. (Perez, 1992, quoted in Portes and Stepick, 1993, p. 225)

Increased migration out of Dade County provides an excellent example of how the storm reinforced existing social dynamics. Areas such as south-west Broward County were already growing quickly because of improved highway access, low interest rates, and the amenity appeal of a less urban location. Local residents commonly agreed that the hurricane had helped to push land development "years ahead of schedule." The overall result of storm-assisted migration and demographic reorganization has been increased spatial segregation of racial and ethnic groups and - to a lesser degree - increased economic segregation. Hurricane Andrew seems to have accelerated the Hispanicization of Dade County by enabling the movement of middle- and upper-income Whites to Broward County. Remaining non-Hispanic residents (i.e. African-American and White) are in general poorer than those who are leaving.

[12. Environmental hazards and interest group coalitions: Metropolitan Miami after hurricane Andrew - William D. Solecki]


I doubt you would infer from the appearances of tourists in Montego Bay or Cancun that Northern Europeans prefer to live around blacks or Mexicans.

If you want to make serious arguments using real data, do so. If you want to try to convince yourself you are desirable to Northern European women, do so on your own time -- stop wasting mine.

desmond jones said...

"... most white americans lump all the different european ethnicities (including jewish,...) together as just white people..."

These groups, at least in the Toronto CMA: Census Metropolitan Area, are self-segregating on a de facto basis. Jews and Italians form strongly segregated communities separate from N/Es (Cdn, English, German, Scottish, Welsh etc.)