As manifested on the internet:
You say Europe is white? You are in dreamland and in denial. Spain white? the Greece white?, Italy white? They are by no means considered white. I am half Greek, half Dutch and my skin is olive color by the Greek side of my family. Italians and Spanish are along the same lines of that olive skin, dark eyes and hair from the majority of the populations. Europe is ready for an Obama of their own and the sooner the better to stop racism as soon as possible.
Posted by: sandra | November 12, 2008 2:26 AM
More:
razib, yes,you are right it was not a good argument and I am probably a little bitter from certains types of discrimination. You are also right about being considered not white in the netherlands because of being half Greek, although that was while I was growing up, now things are starting to change, slowly. If you look at the Dutch and other Europeans today, you see a lot of mixes of different nationalities. I don't think that anyone is pure anything nowadays. I think that we should all be happy to be of the human race and not focuss so much on the color of ones hair, skin or eyes. What do you think?
Posted by: sandra | November 12, 2008 3:41 AM
Is this the sort of "change" we need more of?
What exactly do you think this proves?
ReplyDeleteWhat I "think" is that this is one more piece of data supporting the fact that ethnic conflict exists and Europeans are not all interchangeable. Maybe you'd like to explain why that makes you uncomfortable.
ReplyDeleteThere is an overabundance of evidence that shows ethnic conflicts existing and Europeans not being interchangeable. Where have you been? Why would you think a couple of comments from a crazy assed broad with confidence and emotional issues somehow added anything to this?
ReplyDeleteYou seem odd and edgy. I think the fawning over a black man by an entire continent of whites is millions of orders more troublesome as that signifies the degree of sickness of Europeans.
I think the fawning over a black man by an entire continent of whites is millions of orders more troublesome as that signifies the degree of sickness of Europeans.
ReplyDeleteOne follows from the other.
As man advances in civilization, and small tribes are united into larger communities, the simplest reason would tell each individual that he ought to extend his social instincts and sympathies to all the members of the same nation, though personally unknown to him. This point being once reached, there is only an artificial barrier to prevent his sympathies extending to the men of all nations and races. If, indeed, such men are separated from him by great differences in appearance or habits, experience unfortunately shows us how long it is, before we look at them as our fellow-creatures. ... This virtue, one of the noblest with which man is endowed, seems to arise incidentally from our sympathies becoming more tender and more widely diffused, until they are extended to all sentient beings. As soon as this virtue is honored and practiced by some few men, it spreads through instruction and example to the young, and eventually becomes incorporated in public opinion.
- Charles Darwin; The Descent of Man, 1871
Sickness or evolution?
Sickness or evolution?
ReplyDeleteSickness. Where is this great virtue in other races? Even in the west, many other races do not exhibit this virtue. European man is quite sick and possibly fatally.
Darwin doesn't suggest there is virtue in all races, only the highly civilised. If a sickness then why is it such a valuable trait in building a nation, yet seemingly so destructive and apparently fatal when it is extended to men of other nations, races and eventually all sentient beings?
ReplyDeleteOnce the Dutchman marries the Greek and produces an olive-skinned offspring the malady begins. The poor thing finds no acceptance anywhere. Sympathy is extended. After all she's European and little different from the rest of us. It's a small step to then remove the one-drop rule and feel sympathy for the offspring of a black/white union, sympathetic enough, in fact, over a period of time to elect him the leader of a predominantly white nation. Although even that is not new per se. The election of a black mayor to a majority white town occurred as early as 1888. (First African-American mayor of a predominately white US town, and of a Western US town: Edward Duplex, Wheatland, California[2])
Thanks for the link. I'm shocked.
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest of your comment, I believe you are too far in the doom and gloom territory with respect to intra-European mating. How long has Europe been around? Are we all a mixed hodgepodge of people? No. Why? Because we maintained borders and boundaries. Hell, the French were fucking Negroes way back and there still are white French to this day.
I'm sorry, but I do not buy that once we let just one X mate with one Y, we're destined to be a mud people. Finland has more than their fair share of genetically driven diseases (http://www.saunalahti.fi/kup/engl/finmr.htm) thanks to their small numbers, Lapps being even smaller. It never hurts too much to have some fresh blood in the territory, though the key word being some. Maintaining borders and a proud ethnic identity overcomes the occasional intra-European mating without affecting the whole. What we have now is deliberate and organized chaos to bring about what you, me and many others are trying to avoid.
Europe is a different kettle of fish. And you're correct, small amounts of admixture are not a huge concern, however, in North America borders are few and far between. Mass migration of southern and eastern Europeans displaced the founding Americans. Communities like Altoona Pa. were fundamentally changed forever.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the 19th century the Pennsylvania Rail Road (PRR) kept the city white, Protestant, and ethnically centered on the “traditional” Pennsylvania family of English, Scottish, and German descent. The PRR sought to keep Altoona homogeneous by preventing immigrant trains traveling from eastern ports inland to the nation’s major industrial cities from debarking passengers in Altoona.
By the early 20th century, though, the need for labor outweighed any desire for homogeneity. The PRR began to accept and even recruit workers from eastern and southern Europe and African Americans from eastern cities and the South.[...]
The influx of new immigrant and migrant workers began to change the landscape of Altoona. New ethnic neighborhoods formed: Little Italy, Jew Hill, Boogie Bend, Bloody Eighth, and Dutch Hill. Each ethnic group established churches of its own, conducted in its own tongue: Gaelic, Italian, Hungarian, and so forth. By 1936 there were 80 different churches in the city of 80,000. The church was the single most important organization, outside of the PRR, in the lives of most laborers. That same year there were 136 taverns and pubs within the city limits, which provided meeting places for friends, family, and organizations for the discussion of labor and management issues, social causes, neighborhood disputes, and politics.
The cultural practices of Altoona’s residents also began to change. “Hopin’ John” (African American rice and black-eyed peas) found its way onto the dinner table, as did gnocchi (Italian pasta) and haluski (Polish cabbage and noodles). Within a generation “healers” began working across cultural lines and storytellers found favor no matter what their ethnic/racial background. Various cultural practices gradually became a part of the larger culture, in some instances changing altogether and in others maintaining their distinctive character.
in North America borders are few and far between. Mass migration of southern and eastern Europeans displaced the founding Americans. Communities like Altoona Pa. were fundamentally changed forever.
ReplyDeleteI hear you. Realistically, what is there to be done? From my perspective, the only viable option for the survival of whites in the US is balkanization. We all know that isn't a certainty and if it does come, it will be instigated by the non-whites and not us. Probably the Mexicans.
How do you see a future coming about where US whites again have a homogenous society?
Many if not most Americans of E or SE European ancestry have NW European ancestry as well (myself included).
ReplyDeleteNo way for Desmond to untie that knot. Not that SE Europeans and NW Europeans (or their descendants in the US, Australia, etc., including SE/NW mixes like myself) are in any way interchangeable.
North America never was a homogeneous white society. Its origins were a mixed bag (blacks, aboriginals, other Europeans) led by a Wasp elite. Now it's an even larger polyglot led by a Jewish elite. There is already de facto balkanization, however, as you suggest it is unlikely to become de jure. If immigration continues at its current pace, then de facto segregation will harden. If it slows, as it has typically done historically, (because of recession or war) then Yancey is probably closer to the truth.
ReplyDeleteFor now, as n/a suggests, teach your children well .Practise endogamy.